Sciatica pain relief

What is sciatica

Sciatica is a pain that you feel along the path of the sciatic nerve.

The sciatic nerve is the longest and largest nerve in the human body. 
The nerve starts in the lower back and travels all the way down to the heel of your foot. 

The pain is normally felt in your lower back through your hips and buttocks and down one of your legs or in the foot.

Sciatica pain normally affects most people in only one side of your body.

People get sciatica between the ages of 30 and 50. I got it around the age of 19.

What I hate about sciatica nerve pain is it just seems to linger like a headache but in the lower part of your body. We all want sciatica pain relief and most of all a sciatica cure.

In this post I will try explain 
  • What is sciatica
  • Sciatica relief
  • Sciatica pain relief
  • Sciatica symptoms
  • Sciatic treatments

Sciatica symptoms

  • Shooting pain feeling
  • Pins and needles feeling
  • Burning sensation
  • Lower back pain
  • Pain in leg,legs,hip,buttock,foot
  • Numbness
  • Tingling feeling
  • Posture pain when sitting,standing
  • Loss of control of your bladder or bowels

Why is it so painful?

You could blame the brain and your nerves but before you do just remember
The nerves in your body save your life how you say?

Nerves detect pain and send messages to your brain telling your brain something is not right with your body.

The message the brain receives is saying whatever is causing that pain needs to be stopped or sorted out as soon as possible for example standing on a nail.

Why do we even feel pain though?

Pain from sciatica is your nerves telling your brain you have a problem with part of your body where the pain is located etc.

Let's say you did not feel any pain now if you were to 
stand on a nail and it went through your foot and you was bleeding heavy
you could bleed to death. 

Now how would you know if you did not feel any pain?.
you wouldn't so you would die.

Now that we know what pain is for 
Lets say we stand on the nail and it goes through our foot it will be painful
I have done this so know it is.

So the pain in our foot is the nerves sending a signal to the brain saying its hurting and painful.

So we now know to stop the pain we have to get the nail out of your foot and get medical care.

Same with fire you burn your hand it hurts but if you did not feel pain how would you know the fire  was doing your hand harm? and would destroy the hand completely if left in the fire.

So pain should not be ignored as it is the body's way of saying something is wrong
and you need to sort the problem not numb it with painkillers.

What causes sciatica

Smoking tobacco has been known to cause the spinal disks to break down quicker which could increase your chance of getting sciatica.

Avoid fatty foods that have high levels of saturated fats because these are known to increase inflammation in the body.

People with diabetes are often known to have nerve damage and yes this includes the sciatic nerve so the patient more than likely may suffer with pain associated with sciatica.

Working with vibration tools (Jack Hammers) not only can vibrations cause sciatica they can also make it worse after working on construction sites I can say for sure they do make it worse.

There can be many things that increase your chance of getting sciatica and many different causes of sciatica. It all depends on people's age,health and lifestyle. I will list the common causes.

Even a deficiency in some vitamins and minerals have been known to increase your chance of sciatica for example a deficiency in Vitamin B12 and magnesium.

Here are some of the common causes:
  • Increased weight gain
  • Lumbar herniated disc
  • Injury
  • Job occupation

Weight and sciatica

Losing weight can help sciatica in many ways if you can start trying to lose weight even a little it will not only benefit your health but also may help stop the nerve pain.

Extra body weight puts more stress on your spine and may make sciatica worse and sometimes cause sciatica.

As you gain more extra body weight this will apply more pressure on your spine and joints
so in effect if you lose weight this will take pressure away and may offer relief.

When you gain weight most of the weight pressure is placed on the lower back and pelvis area
Which is why many people who are overweight suffer from sciatica more.

Same as if you put a backpack on weighing 30kg the pressure will be placed on your lower back and probably cause your sciatica flare up or may even cause sciatica.

Herniated disks

This can be very painful as you get older your discs tend to weaken and lose the cushion between the bones
so they become more prone to injury when lifting heavy items or twisting.

The discs act as a shock absorbent cushion between the bones in your spine
as you get older the discs start to lose fluid.

The fluid helps to make them spongy and if they have less fluid they start to go hard and crack.

If pressure is placed on the spine the discs can crack or move and crush the nerves causing pain in the affected area.

Age also plays a factor. As you get older, your disks tend to break down and lose their cushioning with wear and tear.

A single event,strain or injury can cause a slipped disc for example lifting a heavy wheelbarrow doing gardening or tripping over could give you a slipped disk.

Our body can be so fragile it is in the news this week that Simon Cowell has fallen off his bike and broke his back. 

People assume you have to be at a high height 
to break bones you don't as Simon Cowell's fall proves.

If you have money you can get better treatment. That's a fact you can get the best doctors
medicine, surgery the full works. 

I am sure he will be ok. 
Not his biggest fan but I wish him well. 

I have broken my nose two times, six fingers ,my wrist,hand,Ankle,four ribs so like I say it's easily done.

I broke my ankle and wrist climbing down from Mount Snowdon as an example, easily done I did not even know until a few days later.

I just thought I had strained them until I got X-rays.

Now I am sure Simon will get the best treatment as I say
he is wealthy but for most of us we have to sit in a hospital for around 6 hours waiting for an X-ray as we don't have access to the best treatment and private doctors,hospital.


Injuries to the hip or buttocks can cause sciatica this could range from falling over,car crash to doing high contact sports such as rugby or martial arts.

Look at Bruce Lee there is a myth about one kick broke his back during a fight.

But after some research it turns out he did not break his back but badly injured his (Sacral nerve) in
a weight training exercise.

The sacral nerve controls a person's bladder, bowel and pelvic floor and the muscles that function them so they work correctly. 

Bruce apparently did an exercise called the (Good morning workout)

This exercise basically includes 
you placing a relatively light barbell across your shoulders behind your neck. 

Bending at the waist forwards until the back is parallel to the ground.

The exercise is supposed to train the lower back muscles but is very easy to injure your self if the weight is to heavy or you do not warm up properly which is what caused Bruce's injury.

Bruce was badly injured and it took him over six months to recover.
He would suffer chronic back pain for the remainder of his life.

We can injure ourselves easily as we have seen in Bruce Lee's case. 

Many times going to the gym when I was younger my friends would often bet me and my other friends who could lift the heavy weights at the gym normally around a 50kg bench press if I remember correctly.

Yes I was young and stupid I did try once to lift and bench press the 50kg and I was just not strong enough lucky enough my friend helped me lift it off if not I may of had a broken chest.

But my other friends would often bet each other all the time who could lift the heavy weights.

I just passed on the occasion after the first time and said no thanks and let them joke calling me weak etc.

The point I am trying to make is it only takes one time to slip a disc and you have a lifetime of pain and a bad back for life so you have to look after your body as you only have one.

Job occupation

If your job requires you to twist your back or carry heavy items such as loading a van
or if you drive for long periods or even an office worker sat down for 6 hours these can all
increase your chance of sciatica.

In one of my old job roles I would
work on loading bays that were about 5ft off the ground.

I would carry heavy boxes now the steps to ground level were about 800 metres so to save time I would sometimes step,jump off the loading bay after a while my sciatica would flare up.

So the shock of stepping off the loading bays was causing my sciatica to flare
As the shock of jumping down was being absorbed to my spine,discs causing irritation to the sciatic nerve.

Pocket sciatica cause

When you wear pants or jeans do you sometimes put items in your back pocket. Well this could be a cause of sciatica.

The issue is when you sit down with items in your pocket.

You could be irritating one of your muscles known as the piriformis muscle.

The sciatica nerve normally runs beneath the piriformis muscles so in effect your phone in your pocket could crush the nerve and muscle together and then you get the pain later on.

I have done this one and I often used to forget if I went aboard.

I always ended up putting hotel keys and coins etc in my back pocket then sit down for a rest or a meal.

At night I would get a dull pain in my leg.


Wearing some types of shoes can contribute to sciatic for example high heels make your body lean forward slightly and this then stretches your hip.

Your leg muscles known as the hamstrings are stretched when wearing high heels over time this can cause irritation to the sciatica nerve and cause you pain.

Also if you are standing up all day this can cause issues so always make sure you wear comfy shoes and if you start to get symptoms buy some shoe insoles.

I found insoles helped me when doing construction work and having to wear heavy steel toe cap boots all day they would have cause a pain in my foot at the night.

You can buy memory foam shoes and trainers now such as sketchers they are comfy and may help.

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Keep your posture good by this I mean don't walk with your head down slouching.
keep your head up straight so your spine is straight when waking.

Research has shown incorrect postures can lead to many back problems, including sciatica.

A poor posture can put up pressure on the sciatic nerve.

I see many people walking with headphones or looking at there phone while walking on the street not only is this risky due to phone snatchers and crossing roads etc.

It can put pressure on your spine and may cause your sciatica to flair up.

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Lifting heavy goods

If you have to lift heavy objects such as a box bend your knees correctly you will reduce a chance of injury then.

  • Plan ahead before lifting the item
  • Bend your hips and knees to squat down 
  • Keep your back straight as you lift straight up
  • Keep object as close to your body as possible
  • Avoid turning or twisting
  • Do not lift if to heavy 
  • Ensure a good hold on the load

Use mechanical aids to help with lifting such as pump trucks or trolleys or even ask for help from others to lift heavy items.

Most box's these days have the weight stamped on the side so that can be helpful for you to plan.

It is so easy to strain your back lifting heavy items.

I have done it myself many times in some of my jobs lifting heavy objects and just felt my back go
like I was lifting Thor's hammer or something.

My idiot boss would have me unload a van on the loading bay of around 6 pallets of bleach, and cleaning supplies every few weeks.

The boss would be standing there constantly telling me to hurry up.

Always think and have a look at items before you try to lift them.
It will take you a minute to excess the weight and how best to lift items.

It's worth doing these measures to prevent slipping a disc and causing a lifetime of back pain.

Office work chair

Don't sit still for long periods of time on a chair, try to go for a walk or just do a few stretches
even if it's to walk around the office for a few minutes.

When you are sat down make sure the chair offers good support for your back
and has arm rests for you to lean on.

Many people ask
Do seat cushions help sciatica?

Using a seat cushion can be a big help to take some pressure off your spine try use one and see if that offers relief to you if you already have sciatica.

Sit with both feet flat on the floor and don’t cross your legs
or do sudden knee jerk movements.

Try keep your knees higher than your hips 
this may keep your spine in a good position.

Sit up straight, all the way back in your chair and don't stretch or lean make sure you can reach items without having to strain to lean forward too much for example typing on the keyboard.

Make sure your computer monitor height is set at the correct eye level as again if not your posture may be affected you will notice if you get neck pain,or even eye strain often.

If you're at work tell your boss you need a new chair ,footrest if you're having issues with your back due to the chair.

A good employer will help do what is best for their employees after all they won't want you phoning in saying you need 3 weeks off with sciatica pain. 

If your boss is one of them types of employer that expects you to work when injured etc just mention the health and safety regulation below click link for more info.

A foot rest can help some people but again depends on you.

I have even seen acupuncture spiked foot rests
that apparently help with blood circulation as well as sciatica.

I have tried them a friend bought one and gave it to me as he said he could not use it.
If I am honest I did not notice any positive effects but a lot of people say they offer some relief.

Make sure your chairs offer proper support for your back, place your feet on the floor while sitting, and use your armrests.

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Bed sleeping positions

A bad mattress is unlikely to cause sciatica but it will guarantee to make it worse or flare it up again.

Make sure your mattress is comfy, Many people wake in the morning with sciatica pain.

This is either because the mattress is bad or poor sleeping postures in the night.

While you were asleep the nerve may have been pinched due to the way you're sleeping.

Side sleeping as an example can irritate the sciatic nerve in some people.

Sleeping on your stomach has been known to aggravate sciatic pain many people who sleep on their stomachs will often wake with pain if they have sciatica so I would avoid if you can.

Many times I would put a pillow between my legs as I read somewhere that side sleepers often develop more sciatica pain as the side sleeping puts more pressure on joints.

Now you can buy special pillows designed for this exact problem and I would fully recommend them.
These are good and help take some pressure off your spine and provide relief.

If you lie on your back which many experts say is the best sleeping position try keep your knees slightly elevated on a pillow. 

This will help take some pressure off your spine and may help a lot.

Some people who get pain in the lower left part of the back put pajamas on with a tennis ball in a pocket that stops them from lying on that side.

A nice stretch before bed and when you wake up can help as well.

Just don't do too much stretching at night though as you don't want your body
thinking it is going for a 5 mile run as it will keep you awake if you're to alert.

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How did I get sciatica?

Not fully sure if I am honest if I had to guess I would say the army was the cause of my sciatica.

I would like many other soldiers be carrying 20kg backpack and a 5kg rifle as well as webbing and water.

Doing training missions over long distances with heavy weights is always going to cause the human body problems stuff like that probably was the cause of my sciatica.

I would often push myself to the limit and if I got pain in my back or my muscles hurt.

I just carried on and kind of ignored it then at night it would be more painful.
But again next morning etc I would just carry on with the pain.

You have to remember that is what the army is like your preparing for war
and in a war you can't just stop and say well that bag is a bit heavy and I have back ache. 

Do you have a spare painkiller?

When you have bullets flying towards you.

The training is all about preparing for the unknown and learning to adapt and cope.

Can you ignore pain no and yes? You can learn to cope with it so in a way yes.

But as I have said you are experiencing pain for a reason the brain is trying to tell you something is wrong and if you keep ignoring the pain it could cause you problems.

I first noticed I started to have lower back pain in the army and other symptoms of sciatica.

But I just thought it was the training as my body was getting fitter carrying heavy weights, lack of sleep, different diet etc and under more stress as it was tough training and new environments.

Now I am only a small build person so maybe the weight constantly put pressure on my spine I don't know.

Army life has often had the attitude to ignore the pain like many things so you just kind of did and put up with it.

Will painkillers work

Most will help relieve the pain to a degree:
  • Ibuprofen
  • Naproxen
  • Aspirin 
  • Steroid injections  

The only problem I found is after taking many different types of medication,  after a while the effectiveness seems to not be as good as your body builds up a resistance to the medication.

Plus you have to remember painkillers are just going to numb the pain. The actual problem is not going to go away on its own in the long term.

If I am honest I would not want to take pain killers for long term use as they more or less have side effects on long term use.


These days I very rarely take pain killers even now If I have a toothache or headache
I just prefer to treat the pain naturally.

To be honest I think that is the British Army training still stuck in my head to try and ignore the pain etc I know sounds daft but some of the training never really leaves you.

If you get headaches frequently have a look at this blog. (Queensights)

I don't get headaches that much but If you get stressed and have work to do they can be a big obstacle. 

I have had one all morning and I remembered
the tip from this blog 

Have a coffee well I did and it worked I have not drank coffee in about 6 months as well.

So well worth a read.

Sciatica Pain

We need to deal with what is causing the pain in the first place rather than just trying to make it numb. We need to find the root cause and fix it.

Exercises for sciatica

Many different exercises can help with sciatica 
it is all about finding out what type is best for you.

For example I still do weight lifting not heavy weights to be honest just a few dumbbells
around 5kg each hand. 

But if I was to lift heavy weights I would wear a weight belt
as these can help protect your back from strains.

Always do a warm up and stretch before you start exercise
and take your time and avoid twisting or sudden movements.

If you start lifting heavy weights as an example and twist your body suddenly when you don't normally do weights you could make your condition worse or end up with an injury.

See what exercise gives you relief? Any of the below may offer some help.

  • Walking,Running
  • Yoga
  • Tai Chi
  • Swimming


Regular exercise can help the release of the body's own natural pain-fighting endorphins and reduce inflammation.

It is always wise to exercise to keep healthy and it is good for your mental health as well.

We all know pain such as sciatica can make us feel depressed and down so we have to keep positive. 

What to avoid when you have sciatica?

You have to make sure you don't overdo it and exercise correctly if you start getting sharp pains stop do not risk making your situation worse.

Some people find running can make their pain worse so they tend to go on long walks in parks instead.

Running can be a tricky exercise. The reason why I say that is in some people. 

It can cause the piriformis muscle to tighten.

When this happens it can cause irritation to the sciatic nerve that runs directly under the muscle.
So running may make your sciatica worse so take caution.

Some experts even say it could cause sciatica as the muscle tightens and crush's the sciatic nerve.


I started Yoga a few years ago many of my friends would laugh at me saying don't forget your candles smirking.

I use yoga often. If my back starts to play up I have to say I think it helps so much.

Don't get me wrong I don't use candles and the proper mats etc as I am not a professional Yoga person still learning some of the exercises.

The same friends who would laugh at me all have problems now with their backs and guess what a few now do yoga.

Yoga can be good to correct your posture and stretch your muscles
and the most important part is yoga for sciatica helps many people worldwide.

It can also help recovery from injury. Ask Bear Grylls when he broke his back parachuting he started doing Yoga for his back recovery and he still does it now.

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If you're unsure what to look for google some of these
sciatica exercises: 

  • Reclining pigeon pose.
  • Sitting pigeon pose.
  • Forward pigeon pose.
  • knee to opposite shoulder.
  • Sitting spinal stretch.
  • Standing hamstring stretch.

Have a look at the YouTube channel of  Abi Carver
she has some good examples of Yoga exercises that may help you.

Tai Chi

Many older people use Tai chi as it can be done in slow movements 
and done anywhere and requires no equipment which is why it is used all over the world.

Anyone can do Tai Chi no matter what your fitness level is. It will help you in some way.

You can learn to do Tai Chi from a book, DVD or even attending a local class.

Tai Chi involves deep breathing with relaxing slow movements.
It was developed as a martial art in 13th century China.

Tai Chi is known to: 

  • Reduce stress
  • Improve posture
  • Help balance
  • General mobility
  • Increase muscle strength

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Would swimming help sciatica?

Swimming has been known for years to be helpful for people recovering from injury.

Many people use swimming to help strengthen their muscles and get them back into shape and physically active after an injury crash crash as an example.

It has many benefits, helps loosen joints and increases flexibility.

The feeling of weightlessness in the water always helps by not putting too much pressure on your spine. 

Tones your body and burns calories as well so can be helpful for weight loss.

Can I buy any gadgets that help?

Some gadgets I found when doing some research I have not used all these so I can not say they all work etc but the reviews all seem positive.

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Chinese medicine popularity has grown in the west in recent years as people are trying different methods now.

I have not had acupuncture so can't really review. 

I have looked into it many times
and found many people online have a positive review.

When I inquired online many of the practices said I would need around 3,4 appointments each ranging from £80 plus extra for herbs they prescribe to treat the sciatica.

It kind of put me off as I was thinking how do they know how many I will need and at £80 each time plus money for herbs going to end up costing me £500.

I do know a few people who have it for sciatica and they said it worked as a temporary relief for their pain of sciatic but they still suffered from flare ups a month or two after acupuncture treatment.

What herbs & spices help?

There are many herbs and spices that will help with sciatica.
The key is to look for the herbs & spices that are a natural anti-inflammatory and pain killer.

This do's not mean for example if you eat some garlic as it's an anti-inflammatory it will cure you instantly no it won't but it will help.

  • St John's wort
  • Turmeric
  • Rosemary
  • Garlic
  • Ginger
  • Black pepper
  • Cinnamon

  • Valerian
  • Kava Kava 
  • Aloe vera
  • Devils claw
  • Celery
  • Cloves
  • Green tea
  • Frankincense
  • Capsaicin
  • Feverfew

What foods help?

The key here is the same as above, looking for anti-inflammatory 
foods and also foods that have Magnesium.

Fresh foods will always benefit your body in some way
which is why we should all eat fruit and vegetables daily.

Magnesium is known to help irritated nerves and relax the muscles so always wise to make sure you  have no Magnesium deficiencies.

A diet that is low in potassium is not adviseable many experts say eating a banana a day may help with sciatica.

  • Pineapple
  • Cucumber
  • Onions
  • Cabbage
  • Chili's (Capsaicin)
  • Celery
  • Spinach
  • Lemons
  • Pumpkin seeds
  • Black beans
  • Banana

  • Avocado
  • Dried figs
  • Yogurt
  • Bananas
  • Apricots
  • Fish
  • Brown rice
  • Fenugreek Seeds

What oils help

Many of these oils help with joint back pain ,sciatica and most have anti-inflammatory properties
so will be useful to use.

Here is a list and links of the most common oils used for sciatica pain relief:

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Link to the company I buy my oil from
they have a shop on ebay and amazon.

Here is a link to their site if you need more information.

Link to essential oil site

Supplements Minerals & vitamins that may help?

Here are some of the most common supplements taken by people, some may help
but again it all depends on your lifestyle. 

If you eat a lot of fish then fish oil may not help as an example as you will probably already get enough from your diet. 

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Bath soak

Soaking in the bath with some essential oils and salts has offered me relief many times.

You can buy Radox bath salts or dead sea salts. 

They are both good
and seem to help me relax and soothe aching muscles.

There is a big choice now of ready made bath soaks available everywhere from devils claw the herb known to help sciatica to Himalayan body soaks.

A good bath soak may help relieve some pain and it also helps with blood circulation and a good way to help you destress at the end of a busy work day.

A warm bath can relax the muscles and nerves many people will often go for a bath as they say the heat seems to help with the pain from sciatica.

Having a bath before bed is also another good way to help you relax the tired muscles and a good way to soothe nerve pain from sciatica.

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Ice and Heat

Some people can get relief when they use a cold compass to numb the pain. 

Many people use this method with much success, frozen bags of peas wrapped in a towel etc.

You can buy the cold gel bags that you put in the freezer. They are good for injuries and help reduce inflammation.

Hot water bottles can help many people but you have to be careful with this one if your skin is numb from sciatica you may burn your skin with the hot water bottle.

You can also buy herbal microwave heat cushion bags that you heat up in the microwave. 

I love these and think they are great.
I have used these many times. I am not sure if it was a placebo effect or not they did help relieve the pain most times? they did offer me some relief.

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Get a Massage

Many people swear by a massage and say it can help with their sciatic. 

To be honest
Not really a fan. I had a massage in Turkey and felt fine before I went in .

Came out limping and felt like I had just been beaten up. 

My sciatica was playing up and every part of me was sore, maybe they were just bad at their job?

Lets just say the massager was nicknamed (Hammer Hands) by myself as I felt like someone had hit me with a hammer afterwards.


Chiropractic care has been used by many people treating sciatica.
I personally know a few people who use a chiropractor for sciatica and other issues.

A friend of mine who developed sciatica and hip pain after a car crash uses a chiropractic and no longer suffers from back pain as much but it does tend to flare up again she said mainly in the winter months due to the cold.

I have not had treatment myself so can I only go off what I read and what I have been told by others most of it seems positive from what I hear so maybe it is worth a try if you can afford it.

Sciatica Diagnosis

To determine whether you have sciatica, your doctor will ask you 
where the pain is located and when it started.

What your job entails and what exercises, sport you do.

The common questions always crop up as well how much alcohol 
do you drink etc and do you smoke.

You will probably be asked to perform a number of simple exercises such as squatting, walking on your toes,leaning forward to touch toes etc

The doctor can then determine if the sciatica nerve is irritated with these demonstrations.

Other tests could also be done such as
spinal X-rays, MRIs, and CT scans.

If I am honest my doctor was not much help the first time he said yes you have sciatica
you are in fit health so don't worry about it.

I asked how long does sciatica last?

Take some ibuprofen and it will probably go on its own, he said.

I went back to the doctors about 3 months later with the same issue.

The doctor said well not much you can do other than take pain killers.

I asked about other treatment chiropractors.
No he said unless you went private and paid yourself. So like I say the doctor was not much use.

But if I am honest my doctor is pretty much useless in most things you go in and you're out of the room in less than five minutes.

You're lucky to get an appointment as well normally its a six week wait for an appointment at my doctors.

Doctors advice

Always speak to your doctor before starting new exercises or taking medications hopefully will be better then my doctor.

I have tried most of these methods most with success so this is my own personal guide and should not be used instead of your doctor's advice etc.

If you get to a point where your medication is no longer stopping the pain or the pain is affecting you movements or normal day to day life then go see a doctor.


You have the determination and strength to make your own pain from sciatica go away.

It is hard I know which is the reason I created this post.
I know sometimes it is easy to think. I will just take a pain killer and the pain stops for a few hours etc.

I hope this guide helps you and if you have any advice tips you think I should add leave a comment and I will update the post.

Stay strong and beat the pain.


  1. Ooooh I had sciatica before, it is painful, and going to the chiropractor and acupuncturist helped big time. I felt like it came from deadlifting wrong or something. All of this information is interesting to learn. Wearing the right shoes is so important!! I know for high heels, I try to limit it as much as I can. Thanks for sharing all of these facts!

    Nancy ✨

    1. Thank you Nancy Yes many of my friends say chiropractor and acupuncturist has helped them I may give them a try once they open again in UK.

  2. Never heard of sciatica and your post has been very informative! Appreciate it!

    1. Thank you Queenie glad you like it also very useful advice on your blog about headache I used the coffee tip today also added a link to share to others

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